In an undisclosed location, at a warehouse in Los Angeles, Avril Lavigne and Rico Nasty meet for the first time. One is a giant of her genre, the godmother of modern pop punk; the other, a pioneer of misfit rap, whose idiosyncratic flows and personas (the trap Tacobella and nü-metal/rap Trap Lavigne) have inspired a microgeneration of copycats. It’s the past, present and future of alternative music in two women, sharing pizza and Labatt Blues — a light Canadian beer, a favorite of Lavigne’s — dancing to No Doubt and Weezer over the speakers. System Of A Down set the party off.
Here, Nasty and Lavigne are getting dressed for their Alternative Press cover shoot — a contemporary take on the sk8er girl fashions that Lavigne made the object of every outsider’s affection in the early 2000s. Lavigne hands Nasty a “Bite Me” shirt — merch commemorating the rapper’s favorite song on Lavigne’s recently released seventh studio album, Love Sux, her most ferocious to date. “It’s uptempo and fun; it’s about self-worth, self-love and self-respect,” Lavigne tells AP. “It’s, ‘You can live one life. Make it fucking count.’ And I’m writing from a woman’s perspective, instead of as a teenager, like on my first album,” she says, laughing.
That LP, Let Go, was released 20 years ago this June, when Lavigne was just 17 years old. It is the best-selling album of the 21st century by a Canadian artist, an impressive feat by any measure, but especially when considering the Great White North produced the Weeknd, Drake, hell, even Justin Bieber, in the same time period. Let Go launched Lavigne’s first acclaimed singles — “Complicated,” “Sk8er Boi” and “I’m With You” — the kinds of songs most artists would be lucky to release once in their career.
Photo by Alexis Gross
It was also a formative album for a young Black woman in suburban Maryland named Maria-Cecilia Simone Kelly, who would one day start recording her own alt-rap under the moniker Rico Nasty.Back then, Lavigne was lambasted as a “sellout,” dubbed “un-punk” by a misogynistic music press that failed to see her talent — or future legacy. Not that she ever let it bother her, a spirit that endures in her fans, renegades like Rico Nasty. “Punk, over time, has become you don’t give a fuck. It used to mean something different when Avril was coming up,” the rapper explains. “It’s having fun with your middle fingers up.” Lavigne agrees: “Punk is an attitude, a music style, a fashion style, a way of life. It’s a rebellion,” she says. “It’s being comfortable in your own skin and not holding back. It’s brutally honest.”
That spirit of unbridled truthfulness permeates the conversation as Nasty and Lavigne settle down to discuss music, fashion, family creativity and anxiety.
RICO NASTY: Let’s start with the fashion because we got to give you your flowers, Avril. The cover of Let Go is iconic: The baggy pants, the hair, the highlight is everything. I know you see everyone dressing like how you used to dress now. That must be so weird. But that shit is so amazing. Did you know that [your fashion] was going to become such a staple for who came to be?
AVRIL LAVIGNE: Oh, my God, I had no idea. Even just hearing you say that and point it out… I was oblivious to what was going on. I was literally just wearing…
NASTY: …Whatever you wanted?
LAVIGNE: Yeah, and I would wear the same shit over and over. No one ever fucking does that now.
NASTY: That’s what makes you so fucking raw, bro. None of that mattered. It was all about the music with you. That’s fire as fuck.
LAVIGNE: A lot of the vintage T-shirts I was wearing [at the start of my career] were literally mine from soccer and baseball and different sports. They were the T-shirts I had as a kid for those teams I played on. And the neckties were really my dad’s neckties. It’s really hilarious.
NASTY: People always ask me who I am inspired by, and honestly, there’s been a numerous amount of times where I’ve mentioned you. Who are you inspired by? Who are the people that make your fucking eyes pop out of your head, just like, “Whoa, this person is fucking sick”?
“A lot of the vintage T-shirts I was wearing [at the start of my career] were literally from sports teams I played on. And the neckties were really my dad’s neckties”
—AVRIL LAVIGNE
LAVIGNE: I’d say an early influence, someone I’m inspired by, is Alanis Morissette. What I thought was really cool about her is that she didn’t hold back, lyrically. She was just angry, and had so much angst, and she just fucking put it right out there. She didn’t care. Looking back, I feel like she was huge and helped me realize that you don’t have to be prim and proper, or perfect, or say all the right things. If you’re fucking over it, or an angsty teenager, just get it out. Say it like it is.
Another one, and this is a crazy story: I met Shania Twain when I was 14. This is before I had a record deal or anything. I won a fucking contest at a local radio station to sing onstage with her. I got to sing onstage with her at this sold-out arena in Ottawa, in Canada. She gave me an opportunity to get up onstage as a young kid, and that definitely helped me in my career. And she’s someone I’ve stayed in touch with. I did an interview with her the other day. She’s so epic — like her songwriting, writing from a woman’s perspective about things we go through. Those two were quite inspiring throughout my life and had a real impact.
NASTY: Just going back to [Love Sux] — “Bite Me” is my favorite song. You talk about [Alanis Morissette’s] angst — the angst in that song! The “fuck me but kiss me” vibe from that song, I love it. You have mastered the art of being perfectly aggressive, sexy, mysterious — it’s really crazy. When you said “You’re so hot when you get cold” [on “Love It When You Hate Me”], yeah, that’s fucking fire.
Photo by Alexis Gross
“Don’t let anybody hold you back, especially when it comes to relationships. We all want love to last, but if it’s bringing you down, you’ve gotta move on”
—AVRIL LAVIGNE
LAVIGNE: Thank you. [The album is all about] living your best life. Don’t let anybody fucking hold you back, especially when it comes to relationships. We all want our relationships and love to fucking last, but if it’s bringing you down and it becomes toxic, or it’s not good, even if you love someone, you’ve gotta end that shit and move on. Do what’s best for you. Love is hard, but it’s worth it. Also, it’s really lighthearted, and I just poke fun at relationships and my ups and downs in them. It’s like, “They did a lot of fucked-up shit to you, but at the same time, you can laugh about it.” I take you on a crazy ride.
NASTY: That’s sick. So when did you start your career? How old were you?
LAVIGNE: I made the first record when I was 16 and then put out the first record and the first single when I was 17.
NASTY: What the fuck? What did you want to do before music started working?
LAVIGNE: Like, did I ever think about doing anything else? I knew I did not want to be in an office. I think I would have probably done something like being a hairdresser.
NASTY: I feel the same way. I would have been a nail tech or a hairstylist. Something involving glam, like a makeup artist.
LAVIGNE: It’s another fun way to be creative, too.
NASTY: I couldn’t do a desk job. I used to go to work with my mom. One time she got a promotion, and she took me to work with her. I was happy for her, but she always tells the story like I was very underwhelmed, like, “You got a promotion, but you still have to work in this office. There’s no windows in here. And you always have to come in when they ask you.” She was like, “Yeah, that’s what a job is.” And I was like, “Well, how do you make money without having to do this?” My mom laughed at me. Everybody knew that I wasn’t gonna have a regular job. I think I’ve had one real job. I worked at the hospital. I was the receptionist. Did you have any actual jobs?
LAVIGNE: I would hand out flyers around the neighborhood to cut grass and shovel driveways. I was a driven, motivated bitch. I would babysit. I don’t know. I wanted a job and independence so bad.
NASTY: I remember the babysitting days, too. Mowing the lawn is crazy. That’s something most people would expect a guy to do. Same goes for the music that you make. I’m sure that you’ve gotten so much of, “How do you deal with being in a male-dominated space?” and I don’t even want to ask you that because we kind of just do it. You just do it. But are you aware of how much you’ve done for women? You always do things on your terms, never the cookie-cutter thing. Also, I have to ask, you took a couple years off before this project. That’s something to me, as an artist, I can’t wait for the day that I can just live my life and not feel like I’m wasting time. I should be making music right now. I feel like [it’s] “music, music, music.”
LAVIGNE: I’m the same. I don’t ever want to stop. I feel like that did happen when I was young. I felt like I just wanted to do this forever and have a really long career. When I was young, it was an intense situation to be in. You don’t just write songs and sing them. There’s all this crazy traveling and interviews and photo shoots and video shoots and performances. It takes over your whole life. I had to dedicate my entire life to my music. So, music is my boyfriend. But I’m OK with that because I fucking love it. I wouldn’t change anything for the world. I want to be doing this. And that is exactly how I feel, 20 years later. I’m putting this record out. I’m having the fucking time of my life. I’m doing me.
Photo by Alexis Gross
